Saturday, October 07, 2006

October 6, 2006: Big City Orchestra

October 6, 2006: Big City Orchestra

This week's feature is on Big City Orchestra - stay tuned for this week's podcast (episode 115), featuring a track by BCO and 15 other sound collages by artists from around the world...

***

Big City Orchestra

My first Big City Orchestra record was probably the rather violently titled CD, The Beatlerape (the name simply refers to the fact that the record samples and extensively rearranges songs by The Beatles). Since then I've played quite a few of their countless records, most notably their CD Chimpy, which approaches George W. Bush with the same kind of respect they had theretofore reserved for The Beatles...

Big City Orchestra
is one of those bands that has a million albums and twice as many members, over the course of an ever expanding number of years. They are the standard bearers of noncomformity in that they often refuse to promote their albums, title their tracks or (god forbid) take themselves too seriously. Thank god for Big City Orchestra. If they aren't already a pseudo-religious order of some kind, just give them some time!

Reading over their response to the SAR Q&A, I feel compelled to inject a bit more information into this week's intro...

An online search reveals the following information about Big City Orchestra: They're quite often referred to as anti-art and avant garde. Although I believe they're currently assembled in San Francisco, they would appear to have their origins in Los Angeles, California - in the South Bay area. The Wikipedia entry for Big City Orchestra currently says that the group formed in 1979 as a house band for a network of artist residences. I'm not exactly sure what that means, but I'm assuming they drew from these various residences for their membership. This might explain the project's longevity and long list of past and present participants.

The band was a major part of the "cassette culture movement" of the 1980's and 1990's, with well over a hundred hour-long releases on as many labels. In addition to these cassette releases, there are more than 300 compilation appearances, five 7" singles, one 8" single and four video collections. There are also about 10 CD and close to fifty CD-R releases to look for. And you thought you and your band were prolific...

Big City Orchestra currently holds the record for most creative response to the SAR Q&A. If you didn't know this was a contest; now you do. I've had responses which could fit on the back of a quarter, and those which threatened to exceed the limits of this blog, but the BCO sent their responses in on audio CD, as a performance piece featuring any number of their many rotating members. Their answers are vague and absurd, but you have to give them credit for creativity!

Below is the transcription of Big City Orchestra's response to the SAR Q&A. Their recording consists of several disembodied voices answering the various questions all at the same time. I've simply typed them all out, in the best order I could approximate. Keep in mind that these answers are from several different people, often speaking all at the same time... If it seems confusing, that's only because you are confused. Without further ado...


*Name: Big City Orchestra. Big City Orchestra. Big City Orchestra. Big City Orchestra. Big City… Somethin’ or Other. Big City Orchestra. It could be also, Pig Kitty Porkestra.

*Do you use a pseudonym? Several. All at the same time. Univac. Yes, but it is top-secret. I don’t think so. Yes: Mr. Hate. I am known as Nina Pixie. Professor Warner V. Slack.

*Members: To date, I think there’s about 4oo. I’m not even joking. Most of ‘em - most of ‘em are in it. Most of the members are in the band. Well, at some point, there might be as many as 40 members - It depends on how far back you want to go. I would say over the span of around 20 maybe more years, there are probably at least 200 by now. That’s my guess. 18,000 last I counted. I have no idea. Something more than like 10. Counting fingers and toes, perhaps you’re also a member. The number is infinite and ever-changing.

*What are the full names of each member? Come on, man. There’s too many to list. There’s mom, nina, Alyssa, dad, Jessie, Cheryl, Ann, Mr. Hate, Otis, Nina and a band of miscreants, Josh, carrie, nina, cliff, Jessie, dave, Cheryl, anne, fausto, that one guy who sleeps a lot, some other people, phil, Edward…

*Founding Member: Oh, there’s only one. He’s incredulous, huge, and I don’t know his name. Spiteful, but he always pinches. Mr. Ube Ibi, Das, Mike, Julie, Worm, Mark, Relentless, Hyperbole, and another who sleeps a lot, and a series of mysterious underwater elves.

*Tape manipulations, digital deconstructions or turntable creations: All of the above. I’m not a number. And then some. I’m a free man. Occasional digital deconstructions of sorts, but primarily none of the above. All three. Plus combinations of the three. All of the above, plus other.

*Another genre descriptor: Folk collage art, acoustical experimentations. Weak. Big City Orchestra is beyond classification and always changing and, its just instrumentation, direction – all these things are basically scattered to the wind at the end of each project. Superfluous. And, uh – I couldn’t begin to describe exactly what it is that is going on here. Interesting.

*Is there a story behind your name? I was born with a couple of them. In a dream. The other ones were accidents. My story’s far too complicated. Big City Orchestra, is what we’re talking about here. That’s the name that we’re talking about. Big City Orchestra. That name. It has so much depth, so much meaning, that I can’t put it into words. Where did it come from? Well, there was this house… Well, that was simply a nick-name given to me by an ex-girlfriend many years ago, basically because of my scathing sarcastic nature. Sometimes. A bunch of trash cans. Set that oil on fire. And they called it big city. My name is Nina. That’s where it came from. I’m very short. I’ve always been told I look somewhat like a Pixie. The name just fit – Nina Pixie. Well, there was an ocean and a small boat that had lost its sail and then there was a tidal wave and an entire island was submerged and then it started hailing and dead whales floated to the surface of the ocean and we saw a giant squid, alive, which noone’s ever seen except us. And then, I think that’s when he came to me.

*Location: I’m basically from the Army. I was born here. Yep – born there. I was born in San Mateo, California. I could show you on a map. Followed my dad around until he died. Some twenty minutes south of San Francisco. The left side of over there. Some Army guy. Followed them around until I got out of school. The north pole. Got arrested and joined the army. They gave me a choice. I could join the army. Its all I’ve ever known. I’m still searching for that answer. About three quarters of the way through the western spiral, of the milky way galaxy. Originally from Chicago. Barn raised, transplanted to Arizona and migrated to California. Space dust.

*What is your creative/artistic background: It all started with a hand held tape recorder as a child, when I was supposed to be playing outdoors. Then I got into the fingerpaints and made quite a mess. Interrupted dad’s closet were his clothes. The next thing I knew, I was making noise. Getting up their in your brain, circulating around in your capillaries, back down through the venal system. Crayons. In the good out with the bad. That’s where the art is – it's in your blood. When I was little, I liked to bang on the piano and write my own songs instead of playing new ones that were put in front of me. Mostly trees and ripped paper, but there’s a painted wall that’s a little bit textured. That’s all behind me. My artistic background lies chiefly in music, performing, writing, recording and I’ve been involved with radio.

*History: This project, anyway, has been going on since the early 1980’s. Probably late ‘70’s, before I got on. For some twenty-three, no twenty-five years. Oh. Hey, I pay my taxes. I was a baby. I don’t remember. Since the work created me. Depends on what day you ask that question. Could be either two hours or more than a quarter of a century.

*Motivations: Because otherwise I would be dead. That’s easy man, what else is there to do? Why? Why do they do what they do? Why indeed? How can I but not do what I do? Because noone else is doing it.

*Philosophy: I need to get my inner stuff out. I breathe because I must. I create because I yearn. There’s some stuff, and then there’s some other stuff and it gets mutated by some other things and then we stick it in a computer sometimes or we play it in front of an audience and things happen. I live because… I’m still getting to that. Philosophy usually doesn’t my creative outbursts. For camaraderie, communication, creativity, what you hear. Its more simply that release of inner ideas and energy in an external fashion. Euclidian.

*How would you like to be remembered: In pieces. By who? And louder than usual. Upside down and full of colors. Yeah, just listen. The sounds that you’re hearing – they came from me - that’s what I want to be remembered for. I would like to be remembered as an able collaborator. Who I am, what my person is, all that human drama bulls*** – that’s just a means to an end. The sounds themselves ought to speak for me. Mostly for the melodious, tonal qualities, of my sound footprints on recordings. As a Viking.

*Web address: Ubu www UBU Ibi dot org www dot org www UBU, IBI, dot org www dot ubu ibi dot org UBU ubu IBI www dot org www dot ubu www dot org… Can I get a cup of coffee here? A guys been asking me questions all night and uh I could really use a cup of coffee… all these questions, kinda making me a little, just making me want a cup of coffee or something. Could you do that for me?

***

Thanks again to the many and mysterious members of Big City Orchestra, for all frantically waving their hands in the air, in response to every question asked, and then all speaking up at once, in one mad informational burst. I can't imagine a more suitable response. Be sure to check out the Big City Orchestra website, once you've downloaded this week's episode...

Thanks again for tuning in! If you're in the Twin Cities' area, be sure to save October 26th on your calendar this month, and plan on meeting me at First Avenue to see Negativland, as they come through town on tour. Some Assembly Required is proud to sponsor the event in the Main Room that night. More details forthcoming. In the meantime, visit First Avenue's website for more information.

Until next week - Thanks for listening!
Jon Nelson

www.some-assembly-required.net

Sunday, October 01, 2006

Episode 114, Some Assembly Required

Episode 114, Some Assembly Required

01 Braces Tower – “Special child”
02 Myeck Waters – “Sleeping cinder”
03 DJ Abilities – “Well Being”
04 The Bran Flakes – “Wowee”
05 David Shea – “Track 07 (Let's Entertain, Disc 4)”
06 Negativland – “Play it again”
07 Osymyso – “Think And Sing”
08 OBE – “Recycled Flashback”
09 Steve Dirkx – “Our life”
10 Escape Mechanism – “Why Does The Light Fall?”
11 Steve Fisk – “Taxman”
12 Realistic – “Larry love said”
13 Lecture on Nothing – “Flies”
14 Negativland – “What's Music?”
15 Ruth Anderson – “SUM (State of the union message)”
16 Freelance Hellraiser – “Musical know how”


Use this address, for your pod software:
http://feeds.feedburner.com/some-assembly-required/JSpD

More information about Some Assembly Required online, at:
www.some-assembly-required.net

October 1, 2006: Steve Dirkx

October 1, 2006: Steve Dirkx

This week's feature is on Steve Dirkx -- Stay tuned for episode 114, featuring 16 sound collages, including a track off of Steve Dirkx' CD, The Butcher's Covers...

***

Steve Dirkx

I first heard about Steve Dirkx from someone on Rumori, I think. I mentioned the Snuggles list last week; another listserv I joined, hoping to discover more about the world of sound collage, was set up by Steev Hise, from his website: Detritus.net. I was planning a Beatles themed episode of the program and had asked for input. I can't remember for sure who sent me The Butcher's Covers on CD. It might have been Steev Hise or Wobbly, or it might have been Jim Allenspach, who has provided lots of great stuff over the years, or I might have gotten it from The Bran Flakes' Otis Fodder, who used to run a tape trading service called the MOFO Outreach Ministry. There have been a number of great friends to the show over the years and unfortunately I haven't kept the greatest notes about who sent what...

(the photo is of one of Dirkx other projects, The Telefones)

The Butchers Covers is a record of sound collages by Steve Dirkx, using The Beatles as source material, almost entirely. The original liner notes were photocopied and sent with the copy I received, and here's some of the text found below the tracklisting: I, Steven M. Dirkx, do affirm that I did willfully and with no malice aforethought, unlawfully tamper with the Sacred Recordings of the Cherished Tunesmiths, during the month of August, 1998... The title (by the way, a reference to a Beatles album cover which was apparently banned) was originally the much more descriptive, Beatles In A Blender.

What else can I tell you... What else do I know? Steve Dirkx is obviously a huge fan of The Beatles, and he played bass for a band called The Telefones, with his brother's Jerry and Chris (See image above). For more information, do your own google search! Here's a good intro though, via the SAR Q&A with Steve Dirkx...


*Name: Steve Dirkx, or The Butchers Covers

*Are there any additional names used to describe this project: My current CD-R is called "That's CRAZY Music" (June, 2005).

*Do you use a pseudonym? Occasionally - L.S.D. (Little Stevie Dirkx)

*Another genre descriptor: Re-Creationist

*Why you use this descriptor: I just now made it up, because you asked for one. I don't really call myself anything in particular.

*Location: Dallas, TX

*Original Location: Moved around a lot (Army Brat).

*What is your creative/artistic background: Been writing songs, playing instruments, since approx. 1969. My first rock concert was Jimi Hendrix (Kansas City) after that I started wanting to MAKE music, not just listen to it. Also have been photographing since about 1966, did a lot of 'video' in the 80's and 90's. Currently do a lot of silly photoshopping. (I use 'Picture It' not photoshop, which I dislike).

*Born: Born in Hawaii (Army Base) 1954

*Motivations: Just have the urge. Ya hear something IN your head, and want to hear it OUTSIDE your head.

*Philosophy: No particular 'philosophy,’ that's pretentious. Although I prefer humor to seriousness.

*How would you like to be remembered: As someone who made interesting, off the beaten track stuff. Funny, but thoughtful.

***

Thanks to Steve Dirkx for being our featured artist this week at the blog! Check out episode 114 to hear a track off of his album, The Butcher's Covers, along with fifteen other tracks by sound collage artists from around the world.

Tune in next week for our feature on Big City Orchestra! Until then, thanks for listening -
Jon Nelson

www.some-assembly-required.net

Sunday, September 24, 2006

Episode 113, Some Assembly Required

Episode 113, Some Assembly Required

01 DJ Shadow - “Six Days”
02 Original Derivatives – “Mission One (Dictator Mix)”
03 People Like Us – “Fun”
04 Office Products – “Mount & Do”
05 Corporal Blossom – “Plastic Job”
06 John Schnall – “My Way”
07 The Kleptones – “Fight”
08 Osymyso – “Leopard to lizard”
09 The Doopees – “Love songs (Love is a many razor bladed thing)”
10 Jeff Sconce - “Yummy”
11 Steinski and Mass Media - “I'm wild about that thing”
12 The Button – “Shifting frequencies”
13 DJ Tripp - “Maniacs emerge”


Use this address, for your pod software:
http://feeds.feedburner.com/some-assembly-required/JSpD

More information about Some Assembly Required online, at:
www.some-assembly-required.net

September 24, 2006: The Button

September 24, 2006: The Button

Busy week here at Post Consumer Productions. Working on several interview episodes and wrapping up our third year of syndicated episodes. Kind of exciting -- another milestone. Our Q&A this week is with The Button, and it is the longest response we've yet to receive, so I'll keep this short and get right to the interesting part. Thanks for checking us out, and stay tuned for this week's podcast (episode 113).

***

The Button

I became familiar with The Button way back when I was a member of the Snuggles Listserv. Snuggles is a community of people who met online, as fans of the band Negativland, and interacted primarily via the listserv. When I first went online, it was largely to search for more sample based music and audio art, and one of the listserv’s I joined, hoping to find out more, was this group of Negativland fans. I figured if anyone could help point me in the direction of new appropriation-based sound collage, it would be a group of very net-savy fans of a band like Negativland.

(The photo is of the band Colorforms - Jay Kennedy is on the right)

The Button was one of the biggest contributors to this listserv. If you’ve ever monitored a listserv, you know there are maybe a dozen people who post regularly, and maybe fifty who will chime in from time to time, and countless more who just “lurk.” If that’s what they’re still calling it these days. In fact, I don't know for sure if Snuggles still exists - I changed my email address several years ago now and was never able to rejoin the group with the new address, so I’ve been pretty disconnected from that universe for some time now. I do still occasionally get new stuff from many of the people who populated that discussion group though, and often play tracks from albums the group put out, including The Droplift Project, Free Speech For Sale and Dictionaraoke. Anyway, this is a feature on The Button, not Snuggles...

The Button was founded by Jay Kennedy and Samuel Harmon. Their radio program, Press The Button, consists of live manipulation of samples, people calling in on the telephone and things of that nature - not unlike Negativland’s radio program, “Over the Edge.” In fact, the Weatherman, one of Negativland’s cast of characters, has been known to call in to the program on a semi-regular basis, just to contribute to the live mix. The combination of live audio mixing, electronics, with or without phone call contributions, has become kind of a college radio tradition at this point.

Press The Button is in fact still going strong, though it looks like the torch has been passed to a couple of people who go by the names of Glacial 23 & Widget. I had to do a little online research to fill in some gaps, as Jay - or every man, as he's now called - actually submitted this Q&A several months ago. It looks like he and J. Kyle Moyer perform as substitute hosts, from time to time, but are focusing largely on Colorforms, another of their performance projects.

The Button, and their various side projects, have released over two dozen records. Press The Button broadcasts live on WRUW, in Cleveland, Ohio (Wednesdays, 10 to Midnight) and has been on the air since 1997. Stay tuned for Episode 113 to hear several sound collages, including one by The Button! Without further ado, here’s the SAR Q&A with Jay Kennedy of both The Button and Press The Button


*Name: The Button

*Are there any additional names used to describe this project: Sometimes "Press The Button,” but really, no.

*Do you use a pseudonym? every man (Although it now reads that on my driver's license! I got it legally changed).

*Members: every man, Samuel Harmon (Glacial 23), Amy Broestl (Widget). Sometimes J. Kyle Moyer. Sometimes Paul Ryan.

*Founding Member: every man, Samuel Harmon

*Tape manipulations, digital deconstructions or turntable creations: Ouch... of those three, the closest thing to it is "digital deconstruction" but we use a lot of analog too!

*Another genre descriptor: Sonic Surrealism

*Why you use this descriptor: We used to call ourselves "audio dada,” but since then our sound has been less dada, and more surreal… in the sense that the Surrealist art movement followed the Dadaist art movement. I have a much better understanding as to why that happened now, having been a part of an audio dada movement for so long. The desire is to go beyond the dada, and explore a deeper meaning within the collage.

*Location: Lakewood, Ohio

*Original Location: Erie, PA

*What is your creative/artistic background:
I was involved in stage/theater from age 8 - 16. I was a computer programmer from age 8 - 18, doing mostly Applesoft Basic programming, or Business Basic programming. I was making low-resolution video games a lot. When I was 17, I formed a public access TV show called "No Budget Theater" which was heavily influenced by The Kids in the Hall, Monty Python's Flying Circus, and Douglas Adams. It was comedy, I think. Mostly weird and silly.

Three of the members of No Budget Theater got the idea to make "No Budget Theater - The Album!" which kinda didn't happen that way, but we recorded a lot of songs with silly lyrics, sung badly, and did some radio sketch parodies, and then college happened. The three folks involved in that were the three core members of No Budget Theater, and all moved away for college. In college I had three majors, one of which was Communications with an emphasis in film. However, radio intrigued me quite a bit, mostly because at the time I was getting into Negativland's Over the Edge shows. Jeremy Hancock, one of No Budget Theater's core members, introduced them to me at age 17 with the Escape From Noise cassette tape. When he moved to college, I went to look for it, but only found "Over the Edge - The Weatherman" cassette tape from Negativland.

Discovering that it was actually a radio show, and not a real full length studio album kinda stunned me and I wanted to know how they did it, WHY they did it, and why the hell isn't this kind of format done more often?? Getting into radio production my freshman year, I learned how to do razor edits, and started doing tape manipulations.

I was making some humorous ones for the No Budget Theater album, but they were so far out compared to what we were doing, it didn't seem right to associate it with a sketch comedy TV show. So, the three of us called this collection of bizarre recordings "Inflatable Voltswagon" (yes, spelled that exact way.) It eventually became a full length cassette tape. Most of it contained silly audio sketches, but parts of it were true audio collage. It eventually got re-issued as a CD on mp3.com, back when that site made it easy and free for anyone to compose and sell their own albums on the internet. The other two members were kinda disturbed by the collage pieces, and didn't really want them on the album, I think... but we clearly weren't getting our s*** together enough to finish it with sketch comedy, and I didn't want to table the stuff we had already recorded permanently, nor did I want to release something half-finished...so I tacked those on the album without their blessing, I think. They grumbled and okayed it, from what I remember, but they'd happily go on record saying the tape collages were all mine and not their artistic intent.


After that, I started a radio show called "The Vegetable Kingdom" at WMCE, in Erie, PA (Mercyhurst College's radio station.) That's where I met Paul Ryan (real name is Paul Smith.) I think I started calling myself DJ Jay. The show was a mix of "alternative" music, radio skits, and sometimes mild audio collage made live on the fly. That was my sophomore year in college.


By the time I was a junior, Paul and I were DJ'ing on Saturdays on that station. I mean, ALL Saturday for the most part. From like 1 pm until 9 pm! He would do 1 - 5, and I would do 5 - 9. It was called "Transmit-O-Matic, parts 1 & 2." That's when the real deal began. Jeez, we were doing on the fly audio collages like you wouldn't believe, with turntables, cassette tapes, CD's, effects processors, reel-to-reel machines, walkie-talkies, and live microphone input. We mixed in sketches called "Ryan Reports" which were like surreal talk shows from your dreams (or nightmares may be more accurate!) They were really silly, humorous, sometimes political in nature, but definitely surreal for the most part. Paul's dad worked in audio production, so he knew his stuff, and was able to get a hold of all kinds of obscure audio recordings to make the mix more captivating for the listener. This was probably around 1993, as I was a junior in college at the time. We got in trouble a lot with the station's faculty adviser, and even with the college president! Once we were playing a mix of polkas, celtic, german dance music, etc... backwards and forwards at the same time, and the college president actually thought we were intentionally insulting foreign cultures! I had to write a letter of apology, and somehow explain what happened in rational terms, making it seem like it was all an "accident." That letter was filled with more bulls*** than I care to re-iterate, but it did the trick and we kept on the air... just not together anymore. The faculty adviser "separated" us, like school children. We weren't allowed on each other's shows anymore, couldn't call each other, nor produce material together. We got around that too. The station was supposed to sign off at midnight, but we would hide under the console until security locked up and left, and then sign the transmitter back on, and do our live mixes together. ;) This was pretty routine actually.

Anyway, that kind of craziness went on until I was a 5th year senior and finally graduated. In the interim, my most interesting collages with Paul got archived on an album entitled "Thunderbunnies." It reminds me a bit of Renaldo & The Loaf's early work, in that it's primitive, clearly experimental, and just all around bizarre... it's probably a cross between their first album and Negativland's first album in terms of its spirit, its production techniques, and its sound. But really, it was its own thing. It's "Thunderbunnies." Paul went on with that project with a few more releases, but I was hardly involved after the first cassette tape release. Independently released, of course. Sometime in college I did some lengthy radio interviews with David Wills and Don Joyce from Negativland, which all the more inspired me to continue with what I was doing. I knew one thing for sure...I couldn't REALLY go wild on WMCE, not the way I wanted to, not the way I *HAD* to, in order to get my creative ideas into full fruition.

After a couple internships at a talk radio station in Erie, I gained a lot of knowledge about audio production, but also realized that there wasn't a single radio station in Erie that would allow my vision to come true...I had to move somewhere else. So I moved to DC for awhile and failed. It was only for a few months.


Then I moved to Cleveland. Paul eventually joined me. Sometime around 1997 I started the "Press The Button" with Sam Harmon (who was already DJ'ing electronica music in that time slot before I met him, and wouldn't you know it, he was a HUGE Negativland fan!) When we weren't doing the shows together, we hung out together. Eventually we started doing tape manipulations together, on reel-to-reel machine, yes, but also doing cut-ups on his home PC. That's when I was first exposed to digital recording / editing. That was the year I joined the Snuggles internet mailing list (Negativland fan club). That was also the year the first "The Button" album was made. We've been together since.

*History: On my own? 12 years. With The Button, 8 years as of 2005.

*Born: I was born in 1972 in Erie, PA. Sam Harmon was born the same year in Columbus, OH. Amy Broestl was born in Cleveland, OH I think. I wanna say that Paul Ryan (Paul Smith) was born in Corry, PA. J. Kyle Moyer was born outside of Cleveland, but I can't think of the name of the city.

*Motivations: To wake people up. To wake myself up. I really enjoy creating it, and I enjoy the affect it has on people who are looking for this kind of thing (who are all too few in number, I promise you). I can't NOT do it. I have to do it. It's fun, but it also gives me insight into myself.

*Philosophy: Reflection. Reflection of culture, myself, and love. Education. Education of culture, myself, and love.

*How would you like to be remembered: The man who brought Burning Man to Cleveland. ;) I started the Recycled Rainbow events in Cleveland the year I couldn't afford to go to Burning Man. That's gotten my creative spirits going more than anything else has to date. I think what I like about it so much is that it's a "community" event, and I get to create amongst a community of artists, with them, and for them. Lately, I've gotten involved in a project called "Colorforms." That's gotten me really excited too. More info at: www.colorforms.net Some collage with Colorforms, but it's not quite The Button. More transcendental, musical, and pop.

*Web address: http://www.pressthebutton.com

***

Thanks to Jay… or every man, as he has changed his name to, legally… for submitting the record for the longest response to the SAR Q&A! Be sure to visit his website, while you’re here surfing the internet – but don’t forget to download episode 113! At first I was a little overwhelmed by how long this response was, but since then I’ve been sort of underwhelmed by how short so many of the responses are, and posting this now, I actually really appreciate the time he took to post such a lengthy response. Thanks every man!

Until next week – thanks for listening,
Jon Nelson

www.some-assembly-required.net